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The Charismatic Movement — No Comments

  1. While I have seen Charismatic Roman Catholics, many Charismatic movements have arisen through protestant churches that have not accepted non-Biblical Catholic doctrines. There are many types of charismatic church congregations (I have been a Christian for over 20 years and have seen much variety). There have been errors that have been out grown through the maturity of the movement and are no longer in practice in many churches such as the prosperity doctrine (“blab it and grab it”) and that you must speak in tongues as a sign that you are saved (which are both false). Certainly all their statements of faith are Not identical.

    When you quibble about the wording of #1 in your article, I just see that they are perhaps saying the chapter and verse markings in the Bible are not inspired and this is not a contested thing. The scriptures – all scriptures in the Bible, are without error certainly. The aim of the charismatic movement, to me, is to use Jesus as the example – Jesus showed that intimacy with God and healing is important. He also promised the Holy Spirit would come to teach and comfort – a great resource for us. The truth is, no church is perfect, we are all learning and gaining understanding.

    Let’s fight the right battles the right way – not by picking apart phrases looking for error, but pressing on into our calling. I don’t hold that the King James is the only correct version without error, though I think it’s probably the best English version. You have an understanding about language don’t you, and it’s limits? I read different versions side by side to study nuances (that don’t contradict) – nuances I would miss otherwise. To me, the original language is probably the best. The Word will accomplish what it is meant to accomplish, we only know in part, it’s all we can know, and we are hopefully growing in understanding, but more in our love for God, and trust.

    The Charismatic movement grows from the motivation of hunger to reach others who are in so much darkness in a more powerful way. Any church and any single person gets off track here and there, but please don’t provoke useless division (especially) – since there are priorities in scripture (some churches are indeed way off in the identity of Jesus and mankind and this should be taught). Read Revelation – the letters edifying the 7 churches – all were considered churches belonging to God, though flawed. They were appreciated for what they did do right as well as corrected.

    I am against the ecumenical movement, but to me the Charismatic movement is not a part of that at all, as far as my 20 years background goes, maybe some churches, but not any of the ones I know of or have been a part of. To me, those are ones who also tend to rely more on the idea of billions of years of creation, which I don’t endorse, and also ones that are anti-miracles which is of course the opposite of what the Charismatic movement is about.

    • Thank you, for your comment, Lisa, and thank you for the loving way in which you presented your argument and your disagreement with my position on a very sensitive, but important, topic. The Body of Christ could benefit from your charitable example. Good intentions notwithstanding, dear sister, you are uninformed about the nature of the Charismatic movement. Perhaps the best way to inform you would be to take your comments point by point.

      To begin, you are correct when you say, “many Charismatic movements have arisen through [P]rotestant churches.” As you know from my essay, I hold that the goal of the Charismatic movement is to unite all religions (specifically Protestant Christianity) on something they can all agree on, since doctrinally they will always disagree. Within Christianity, that something is the works of the Holy Spirit; hence the name, Charismatic. The Charismatic movement can best be seen in the Protestant Church, because it is this church that Satan wants to destroy.

      You are mistaken, however, in your belief that errors such as salvation with the evidence of speaking in tongues “have been outgrown through the maturity of the movement and are no longer in practice.” This practice is in place at this very minute, and in today’s atmosphere of “oneness,” is gaining popularity with a people who no longer believe that the Christian church should separate itself from the world. Knowing this is not dependent on how many years you have been a Christian (praise God for blessing you 20 years in the faith), but on how sensitive you are to the leading of the Holy Spirit, from Whom comes discernment.

      At this moment, I do not have a church home, because, with one exception, every church that I have visited in my hometown since returning to America three and a half years ago has been charismatic—and the one exception was still ecumenical. How do I know? Because when I hear a teaching that is not Biblical, I talk to the pastor about it, to know if he is doing it out of ignorance or if he has an agenda. Not one pastor I have talked to has been able to defend a false teaching with Scripture. And because they never concede that their teachings are unscriptural and never defend them with Scripture—unless they wrench It out of context—I conclude that they are purposely teaching it. Let me give you a couple of examples.

      At one church I visited, the pastor constantly talked about “the Holy Ghost” so much that it seemed that he was subordinating Jesus to Him. When he went so far as to say that a person is not saved unless he demonstrates his salvation through the speaking of tongues, I confronted him. When we went to Scripture, I noticed that every passage he referenced referred only to the Holy Ghost, while the ones I used referred to both the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit. I told him that his argument seemed to suggest that the Holy Ghost and the Holy Spirit were two different persons, to which he replied, “They are!” When I asked him what was the difference between the two he replied, “More power, that’s all; just more power.” Incredible, but true.

      A few months ago, I answered a church advertisement for an associate pastor. I sent the senior pastor my resume and he sent me an email asking me to go to his website and that, if I agreed to his Statement of Faith and his “Supplementary Agreement,” contingent on the interview, I looked pretty good for the job. I went to his website and upon reading the Statement of Faith, I understood that this church was Charismatic. But I gave him the benefit of a doubt, and examined the “Supplementary Agreement,” which included a statement to this effect: “The applicant must agree that salvation is evidenced by the speaking of tongues. Scripture references can be given.” When I wrote the pastor back and gave him the Scripture verses that refute this errant belief, he came back with, “We should have a teachable spirit” and even said that speaking in tongues is not essential to salvation, even though the “Supplementary Agreement” says it was.

      This is why one must “quibble” about wording. Charismatic churches have realized that discerning Christians know speaking in tongues as an evidence of salvation is unscriptural, so they mask it or delete it altogether, such that one would never know unless one were to press the pastor about it. I always do. Believe me: the devil is always in the details.

      The aim of the Charismatic movement is not, as you say, “to use Jesus as the example.” It is to use the gifts of the Holy Spirit as the example, the Greek term for which is charismata. Jesus said that the Holy Spirit would remind us of everything He said (John 14:26), not center the Christian faith around the Spirit’s works, which is what the Charismatic movement does. The Charismatic movement is works centered—not faith centered. And works cannot save us (Romans 3:19, 4:4-5). Remember, our works should be a sign of our faith, not a requirement for our salvation, the only requirement for which is faith in the shed blood of Jesus Christ (Romans 3:25).

      Moreover, Jesus Christ is not to be used merely as an example. Jesus is the Way (John 14:6), not an example of the way. That would be a map. There are a plethora of unbelievers who say they are Christians simply because they use Jesus Christ as an example. Oprah Winfrey is one of those people, yet she says God is merely a “force” and not a person. This is totally unscriptural.

      Your reading different bible verses “side by side” suggests that you don’t think that any one version is the correct one. This is also a belief of charismatics, who believe that only the “original writings” were error-free. This is saying that we don’t have what Jesus actually said anymore, which is calling Jesus Christ a liar, for He said that His words would never pass away (Luke 21:33). This is also calling the Holy Spirit a liar, for He wrote the Bible. This is blasphemy against the Holy Spirit—the only unpardonable sin. This is the sin of the Charismatic movement. And all that are in this system will perish unless they leave it and repent of it.

      So, although you believe me to quibble over semantics, I am zealous for the word of God, as all Christians should be; for Scripture says that we should be ready to avenge all disobedience, when our obedience is fulfilled (2 Corinthians 10:6).

      My spirit tells me that, by your words, sister, you are wanting for discernment: for if you believe the Charismatic Movement is of Jesus, you are terribly deceived, and it could cost you your soul. I’ll be praying for you, because time is short. I would advise you to research the Charismatic movement under the guidance of the Holy Spirit so that you are not deceived into the Pit. I’ll be praying for you.

      I’m going to post this reply, Lisa, because it may help someone else who is in the same situation.

      The Still Man

      • Of course I don’t endorse everything every person and church that labels themselves “charismatic” says and does. I appreciate the Charismatic movement for bringing out Biblical ideas and actions that were once neglected and they are still needed (this is the purpose of any movement). It has limits like anything else. I follow Jesus (of course He is much more than merely an example, He is God our Savior) – all of us have a long, long way to go! I’m not going to demonize the movement because it has certainly helped when used the right way (when used in context of all else that is important and used in humility, not greed). It has been used wrongly like anything human beings get a hold of and basically ruin (the enemy loves this of course).

        I don’t really totally get what you mean by “people who no longer believe that the Christian church should separate itself from the world” since to me, it’s the opposite of what I have seen in much of the Charismatic movement. Most of the Christians I have seen who describe themselves as charismatic tend to focus on being separate from the world. They stress putting on the whole armor of God, for example.

        I could also still go on and on explaining why I am not King James Version only. There are many many languages – all use different words (due to what happened at the Tower of Babel). The Word of God existed way before the King James Bible and even the KJ has been revised. It’s the power and meaning that counts – God’s Word is not an alphabet, not syllables, not exact words, and not exact phrases (though God does use these in specific ways to show us, to minister to us). Actually, Jesus is the Word. That said, there are some translations I’m not always pleased with such as the Message Bible – it looses some depth of meaning – too shallow sometimes. However, it can be shown that the NIV and a few others are just as good in accuracy and can bring out understanding to readers in non-contradicting ways.

        Finally, there are no scriptures in the Bible that say, “Only the King James version is the Word of God.”

        [WORDPRESS HASHCASH] The poster sent us ‘0 which is not a hashcash value.

        • Lisa, I believe that the King James Version is the Word of God. I choose to believe that. Jesus said that His words would not pass away. I believe that Jesus cannot lie, because He is God Almighty. Therefore, all bibles cannot be His words no more than all the women in the world can be my mother. If all the bible versions said exactly the same thing, I would believe they all contained the words of God. But because they all say something different, I cannot believe this.

          For example, Acts 8:37 contains the only recorded confession of Jesus Christ as Lord before baptism in the Bible. This verse is important because it agrees with Romans 10:9-10 which says that repentance, belief, and confession are necessary for salvation–not baptism. Baptism, according to the King James, comes after salvation. Acts 8:37 is missing entirely from the NIV as well as other versions. Now in a world where there is a such thing as right and wrong (which seems to no longer apply to planet earth), either the King James added something to God’s word, or the NIV took something out. Because I choose to believe that the King James is the Word of God, I must believe that the NIV took something out. I won’t really know until Jesus comes. I am willing to take that chance, however, because, religious beliefs aside, a rational person knows that there must always be a choice, and I have made mine. Everyone cannot be right.

          So, with regard to bible versions, I can’t argue with your decision of what to believe, Lisa. All I can do is pray that you will make the right decision, because, ultimately, the disposition of your eternal soul is directly related to what you believe God actually said; and what you believe He actually said will affect what you believe He wants you to do, including whether He wants you in a charismatic church.

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